Posts by The Rebel

10

Roy and my right to free-speech..

by The Rebel in

before england announce the two squad members that won't go in to the euros, i say leave out wiltshire ( not fully match fit) and sturrige,( the most over rated striker ever) however social media disagrees and says drinkwater, lacks quality and rashford experience so leave them out.

other experts think varidys pace irrelevant at this level.

my conclusion it's all opinions and roy hodgson wont base his decision on my opinion nor social medias.

The Rebel

My point about free-speech and sport is:-

1:- I have attended many football matches where bananas were thrown at black players, and racial songs chanted. This sort of free speech should be banned, yet sadly it still happens.

2) Muhammad Ali ( who sadly passed away yesterday) stated his Muslim beliefs prohibited him serving in the Vietnam war, so the " World Boxing Association" suspended him and revolked his world championship title.

3) In the World Cup " FINAL" Zidane got red carded for head butting an opponent. Why did he head butt the opponent ? The tactics of the opposing team were to say to him during the "game" the most disrespectful insults about his sister, until he reacted.

Those are 3 instances of many I could name, in which free-speech and sport in my opinion don't mix:-

So it comes down to balance. Personally I think it is ok for me to say "Rooney should be dropped based on performance and statistics" but I do not think it ok for me to say " He should be dropped because he is a "FAT SLOB"with "MENTAL" problems. In my opinion such name calling is as pathetic as the throwing of bananas at black players.

The Rebel.

p.s. I agree with Ali, on point 2, however the point clearly proves even the U.S.A has restrictions on freedom of expression.

10

Roy and my right to free-speech..

by The Rebel in

before england announce the two squad members that won't go in to the euros, i say leave out wiltshire ( not fully match fit) and sturrige,( the most over rated striker ever) however social media disagrees and says drinkwater, lacks quality and rashford experience so leave them out.

other experts think varidys pace irrelevant at this level.

my conclusion it's all opinions and roy hodgson wont base his decision on my opinion nor social medias.

The Rebel

OrphanCrow, I will answer your point " How does a discussion about sports teams fall under freedom of speech protection" at the end of my thread.

LoveUnHateExams, another reason why we won the World Cup in 1966.

Jack Charlton to Alf Ramsy, the England manager " Why did you pick me"

Alf Ramsey " Jack I don't pick the best players I pick the best team"

So we won the World Cup because we had Alf Ramsey a manager who had the guts not to pick the best players, but players like " Jack Charlton" and " Nobby Stiles". It should be noted Jack Charlton was 30 when he got his first cap, and Nobby Stiles was called an animal by the daily press and a public opinion poll saying he was an embarrassment to our national team. Furthermore Alf Ramsey picked against public opinion kids like Alan Ball ( my hero) and Martin Peters. As for the final Ramsey, dropped the nations hero Jimmy Greaves, and gave Geoff Hurst the number 10 shirt. ( Hurst got a hat-trick, Peters the other goal and Alan Ball was the people's man of the match)

Sir Alf Ramsey " We won the World Cup, because I didn't pick the best players, I created and picked the best team"

Come on Roy...Ali not Rooney in central midfield, Kane up front not Rooney. Who would be England manager and have the guts to drop our captain " Rooney?" Sir Alf Ramsey would, ask Jimmy Greaves.

The Rebel.

OrphanCrow, freedom of speech and questioning your National football team is forbidden in many lands. A teenage girl was so distressed her African National team lost a game against the countries rivals, she shot herself in the head. The country gave her a state funeral. What does that have to do with freedom of speech? Well I think it's ridiculous that in her country I would not be allowed the "freedom of speech" to voice my opinion her suicide was stupid,and football is only a game.

The Rebel

10

Roy and my right to free-speech..

by The Rebel in

before england announce the two squad members that won't go in to the euros, i say leave out wiltshire ( not fully match fit) and sturrige,( the most over rated striker ever) however social media disagrees and says drinkwater, lacks quality and rashford experience so leave them out.

other experts think varidys pace irrelevant at this level.

my conclusion it's all opinions and roy hodgson wont base his decision on my opinion nor social medias.

The Rebel

Well konceptual99, I agree with you, I can only assume Roy Hodgson the England Manager, is a secret Jehovers Witness. I say this because Its interesting to note Jack Wiltsure has the initials of .J.W . I also noted the effect a player converting to a religion has on a team . I say this as a Watford supporter, having noted at the beginning of the season our main sticker " Deeney" seemed to have converted to the " Seventh day Adventist" faith, he then amazingly seemed to convert the whole team, with such success that not one of them " worked" on Saturday since Boxing Day. If it wasn't for mid-week games we would have been relegated.

The Rebel.

10

Roy and my right to free-speech..

by The Rebel in

before england announce the two squad members that won't go in to the euros, i say leave out wiltshire ( not fully match fit) and sturrige,( the most over rated striker ever) however social media disagrees and says drinkwater, lacks quality and rashford experience so leave them out.

other experts think varidys pace irrelevant at this level.

my conclusion it's all opinions and roy hodgson wont base his decision on my opinion nor social medias.

The Rebel

Before England announce the two squad members that won't go in to the Euros, I say leave out Wiltshire ( not fully match fit) and Sturrige. (The most over rated striker ever) However Social media disagrees and says Drinkwater, lacks quality and Rashford experience so leave them out. Other EXPERTS think Varidys pace irrelevant at this level. My conclusion It's all opinions and Roy Hodgson wont base his decision on my opinion nor social medias. That being said, it's kind of fun being a football fun, with free-speech, and suggesting the two players Roy must drop from the squad today.

However I think it takes a more meaningful type of free-speech and soul -searching to question our faith. This is why we are here. We valued our free-speech, held it to the light and saw the "watchtower" interpretation of " free-speech" was in our opinion wrong. Having concluded we were conned to trust in the " W.T" version of " free-speech" we rebelled, and by doing so many we lost our friends our faith, and all we held important.

But we did so because we believed in our thinking.

Was it justified?

Was it worth the price?

I think it is.

But only if it allows us to continue questioning that we may have been wrong. We should never stop challenging our thinking. We should always question why we believe what we believe? And we should always be open to being wrong.

Anyway I believe the two players, Roy needs drop are Wiltshire, & Sturridge.However if Roy doesn't agree with me, and Wilture and Sturridge score the winning goals in the final, I was wrong and Roy Hodgson the England manger was right. I bloody hope so. England havnt won a major tournament in my life time, infact Engaland havnt won a major tournament since 1966.

Ok England fans, let's hope my expertise is not valued, and Roy knows best.

The Rebel.

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

Well we differ on this subject Simon but before I end my drivel, let me say I admire you for helping so many out of the W.T hell. I hope we can agree on that:-) Thanks for allowing my contribution over the months.

Mike.

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

To answer your question " Caedes" my issue of freedom of speech is on authorship. To clarify who wrote the bible, God or man? If Anne Frank wrote the " diary of Anne Frank" she should be credited as author not co-author. If Otto Frank is credited as a co-author who is giving power to nazi sympathisers?

The Rebel.

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

Simon thank you for the post. Yes you are correct I raised this post to challenge my thinking on free speech. The only thing you are incorrect with is I was sure this O.P would not be closed down. To clarify before I started my O.P I researched the forum history and noted many years ago a similar O.P was started, with most posters agreeing the diary was a fraud. However that O.P did not create a discussion from those that belived the diary genuine. I genuinely believe this forum is better than that, that an O.P should create debates and challenge our thinking. That was my intention,

Now for my conclusion to the O.P.

In my honest opinion:-

A) I believe if the diary of Anne Frank is to be " credited" with Otto Frank as co-author, it will in the future ( even today) correctly raise questions about the authenticity of the diary.

B) If the Anne Frank foundation is to be allowed that free-speech and to say Otto Frank is co-author then it means we should follow the argument through and that means they are saying we have been lied to for years and that the book was in-fact co-written by Otto Frank.

C) If we don't agree that " Otto Frank" is co-author, then one of the most important books ever written,should have voices to challenge this because:-

D) If such ( silent) free-speech allowes another persons diary, thoughts, views and opinions be credited to another author, I say so much for free-speech. Do you agree?

Now back to my O.P, my boy of 10 is being taught at school about the Anne Frank diary, to me this means he is being taught about History, and either the words of Anne Frank inspired history, inspired millions or it was bullshit. If it was bullshit I don't think it should be taught, if it was true then Anne should be credited with the work.

This is why I make an issue of the book authorship.

The Rebel.

p.s apologies in advance for the poor spelling:-(

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

Well LisaRose, at least I won't be canned. I remmber that as a kid in the 80s, I was in the head masters room bent over backwards and ouch. And then I spent the rest of the day worrying my brother would tell my mum and dad. Strangely I have forgotten why I got canned.

The Rebel.

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

on the contrary Simon, I believe Otto Frank was a victim, and that the loss of his family does merit sympathy, I am also very sorry his daughters and wife perished. They along with the millions of others who also died in that war, were all individuals, and each of those life's had a story.

I had the privalige of having met Marion Pretzel, when he was in Harpendon. Marion wrote " Diary of a young forger" he was a holocaust survivor and the book he wrote, was very important to me as I grew up as a child. He did not object when I challenged him on his escape from the Janowska concentration camp. I challenged him because the only living witness Simon Wiesenthal wrote in the introduction of the hard back cover " I must confess that in spite of my good memory, I simply can't remmber that short episode of how I helped Marion Pretzel, escape from the " Ostbahn-Ausbesse"

Marion didn't take offense with the question, why should he?

I was also privaliged to associate with concentration camp survivors, when I worked at Moss Bross in Coventry Garden. I was a college kid and they worked in the tailors dept. On many occasions I got my inside leg measurements wrong, and had to rush to the top floor tailors dept. The tailors were all holocaust survivors, and I still remember my ignorant question of why they had numbers on the arm. ( I was only 18/19) We became friends and I shared cups of coffee with them.

The fact is Otto Frank has now been acknowledged as co-author of the book. Therefore Anne Frank is now co-author. So I don't believe the Anne Frank book was misrepresented by the "slightest degree" when she was attributed as the soul author. It became one of the greatest selling books in history because it was co-written by Otto Frank.

This is why the Authors credit should be acknowledged. If it's been misrepresented only to the slightest degree " Anne Frank" should be credited as the writer. However if it has been misrepresented to a greater degree then quite rightly " Otto Frank" should be credited with his contribution to the writting of the story.

Would any one disagree with that?

I hope not as I think my statement is both fair and balanced and certainly I believe would meet with the approval of Marion Pretzel, and my consentration camp survivors whom I befriended at Moss Bross.

The Rebel.

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

Giordano, thank you very much for taking so many hours to research my questions.

May I also suggest the legal experts consulted by the Anne Frank foundation are being very liberal with the statement " We have concluded that the editing, merging and trimming of entries by Anne's father " created a new work" worthy of its copyright." He merged them he, cut them and he changed them, so he created a "new book"

I would answer the above:-

A) A diary is a very personal possession, it can never be created in to a new book with co-authorship by a third party.

B) Legally unless a book has been changed very dramatically it can't be co-authored, otherwise all editors that merge and trim an authors words can be credited with creating a new book.

The Rebel.